Speaker A [00:00:00]:
She saw sort of a shift in my passion and in my energy and that how passionate I was about building the right team hand, picking a core team to really, really help us carry out that vision. Because I was just that committed to it. And I know no matter how great a vision is, you've got to have the right people.
Henry Tolbert [00:00:21]:
Welcome to another episode of the Church Systems Boot Camp where we give you simple solutions to tackle ministry's toughest challenges. My name is Henry Tobit, and I'm your. And today we're going to be talking about breaking the 100 barrier. That's right. If your church has been stuck under 100 people, under or around 100 people in attendance during your weekend services, then this episode is going to be just for you. We're not only going to talk about how you can prepare to break this barrier, but we're going to talk about why. Why should we even care? Why should we want to break this barrier? We're going to dive into it and I'm going to give you five really simple yet direct action step that you can take and mindset shifts that you need to make in order to get across that barrier. So I'm looking forward to that.
Henry Tolbert [00:01:10]:
All right, let me, let me give you this before we jump into our teaching. Breaking the 100 barrier is not just a numbers game. You know, sometimes when we think about breaking barriers, we see the numbers and the church is like, you know, we're known for reducing everything to a number. How many people show up? How much do we have? How much do we, you know, do people get all these kinds of things? But really, I want you to understand something at the very onset of this is that breaking that 100 barrier is really about creating a healthy, vibrant church community. It's about making sure that you're aware that there are lonely people in your community, that you're aware that there are people that God wants to be closer to all around you, and you're creating a space for them to come forward. And so today we're going to be diving into what causes some of these barriers, why we want to get across those barriers, and then how we can cross that bridge and actually do it. All right, let's get to it. So when we talk about church growth, I think it's important that we really start with why.
Henry Tolbert [00:02:19]:
Because sometimes when you talk about church growth, people assume that it's some kind of vain attempt at raising their own status or that it lacks humility to want to grow. And I don't think that's true. I Believe that desiring to grow is in alignment with the mission and vision that Jesus set for the church. And I'm going to show you that. But before we go into that, let's talk about the benefits of a growing church. Right? If you're a church and you're under 100 people or 150 or so, and you want to break this barrier, maybe you're trying to get to the next barrier that's around 200, 225, 250, whatever it may be, then I want you to know the good things that tend to happen when a church begins to intentionally grow beyond 100 people. All right, number one, you'll see more ministry impact. More ministry impact.
Henry Tolbert [00:03:16]:
When the church begins to grow, you begin to add hearts and hands to help with the work. That means that you can begin to offload things from yourself and the small group of people who seem to do everything to now have more people who can come in and who can help get things done. And you know, that means that even if I'm still carrying something really heavy, going from two people carrying it to 10 people carrying it, even if my hand is still on it, it means that it's easier for me to do it. And that's one of the things that happen, is that you can make a bigger impact when you have more hands and more hearts who are connected to the vision. Right? That's one of the things. The second thing that I think is important is you can increase your community impact. You know, there are just some things you can't do because you don't have enough people to go out into the community to help do it. Well, as you reach more people, you get more, a bigger scale of people who are available and who can go out and help and really, really make a difference.
Henry Tolbert [00:04:22]:
Now, if you have a congregation that grows, if you've got 10 people who can go to the elementary school and open car doors in the morning for the kids as they arrive, if you've got five people who can go to the high school and fe a pre game meal to the football team before their game, you've got more people and you can impact your community more because it's more likely that these different groups of people can find their passion, can find something that they're excited about in the kingdom and in the community. And it happens as we begin to grow. Another thing that happens is that you get access to a different set of resources, tools and skills. I'm not much of a video game guy, but I used to love playing sports games and things of that nature. And one of the things that I still love to do is I love leveling up a character. Because when you level up a character, you get to see and you get to get access to these new abilities and these new powers and these new weapons and all these different things. And to be completely honest with you, although I'm not a video game player as much as I used to be, I still am a video game watcher. And so anytime a video game comes out, a new game or something like that, I'll go on YouTube and I'll watch a professional play it and watch them finish it, and I get the same amount of joy.
Henry Tolbert [00:05:41]:
And one of the things that I love to see is when the main character levels up and all of a sudden they get access to new tools. Well, that's what happens. As the church grows, you get access to new tools like some of the things that you couldn't do before, you all of a sudden get the ability to do. Because now you have somebody who's gifted to do it, because now you have somebody who can come in. I'll give you a real example. Just maybe a couple years ago, I was pastoring a church. And this church had been. Is a pretty traditional church, and it was mainly made up of people who were probably 50 and older, right? And that was kind of the main demographic of the church.
Henry Tolbert [00:06:20]:
And so when I started pastoring the church, I knew we wanted to do some things to really bring the church forward in technology, to bring the church forward when it comes to the digital space. That was something that was really important. And as we were doing that, I knew it was going to take some time. I started off kind of doing a lot of it myself. And then one day, a young family walks in the church and the young family walks in. And the husband of this young family is really a digital whiz. I mean, he knew how to do everything from social media to video editing to all kind of production and all these kinds of things. And all of a sudden this, this thing, this initiative, this vision that I had, it went to the next level because a new person walked through the door.
Henry Tolbert [00:07:04]:
And as the church grows, every time a new person walks through the door, they bring with them a new resource, a new skill set, may new ideas that can add to the church. And what happens conversely is that if new people don't come through the door, there is a stagnant kind of culture that can be created because there are no new skills and no new thoughts, no new ideas coming in. And so you want to make sure that you understand that that's one of the benefits. And another benefit of growth is, the one that I hope you're already aware of, is that you can increase your financial stability when you bring new people into church. One of the things that can happen is that you can begin to see more resources come in so that the church can stabilize. You know, one of the pressures that I believe really weighs on church leaders is financial pressure. It's being concerned about making it from one season to the next. It's having a vision for the future, but not having the resources that match that vision.
Henry Tolbert [00:08:12]:
It's. Especially if you're. If you're a church under 100, you might be thinking about, you know, really desiring to build a music ministry. But in order to do that, in most cases, you may have to hire somebody. You may not have the budget to do it, and the market is really competitive. You know, a lot of the best musicians are, you know, playing at two and three and four different churches. And so it's really hard to compete in that market right now. And so.
Henry Tolbert [00:08:38]:
But that's one of the things that you need. You know, you need it, but you're not sure. Technology, you want to upgrade. Some things you need to upgrade your website, you need to, you know, you want to upgrade your technology in the room. You want to put slides and your notes on the screen and all these kinds. But all of those things take money to do it. And so the beauty of it is, if you can continue to grow and reach more people, then you increase your opportunity and your ability to really have that stability that you need. All right, last.
Henry Tolbert [00:09:04]:
One, last benefit that I want to share with you, and then we'll jump in to how to do this is, you know, when you begin to grow and the church begins to grow, you create a more dynamic culture. You know, can we be honest? And I'm going to say this because I don't want to say it because I love you. And I'm going to say it because I care about the church. And I'm going to say it because I believe your intentions are pure in really wanting to build the kingdom and build the church as a result. So here's the hard thing. Your church is boring. Or maybe it might be, you know, I don't know your individual situation, but the truth of the matter is, if some of us are honest, we walk in and I know the awkward feeling. You know, I remember as a church planner, I remember there were Sundays that I would go in church, and I Would just close my eyes and worship and do my absolute best to just throw myself in the presence of God, right? Because I knew the audio was messing up.
Henry Tolbert [00:09:59]:
You know, we were hitting wrong notes on instruments and we were singing wrong notes and the graphics were. It was just stuff going crazy. And I remember just standing there and just really losing myself in the presence of God. I'm not here for all of that. All of that stuff is there. It's a distraction. I'm here for you. And I remember having to intentionally do that and bring myself in because I knew I was standing there and I was going like, man, if I wasn't the pastor of this church, this might be a challenge for me.
Henry Tolbert [00:10:29]:
And I know it's awkward to say that because we do this because we do it for God. And I stand on that. I believe that. But here's what I also know. Excellence is invisible. You know, when we do things well, they don't take people's attention away from why we're really there. But when we do things that aren't done well, they become a distraction. You know, here's how I always say it to the teams and churches that I've led in the past.
Henry Tolbert [00:10:59]:
I say we're not here to be an attraction nor a distraction. We're not here to be an attraction that makes it all about us and how gifted and how talented we are. We're not here to be a distraction and to do it with such a lack of excellence that it takes people attention away from what it should be on. We're called to live in the middle of there somewhere, to where we just do the simple things the right way so that people can lock in and focus on why we've gathered. And that's one of the things that happens when a church grows, is that you can begin to build a more dynamic culture. You can begin a culture. I remember at one point as a church planter, when our church was still really new and we had grown down from 99 on launch day to probably about 35. And some of those midweek Bible studies would be two people in.
Henry Tolbert [00:11:49]:
And I remember when those two people were in the room, like with just a few people in the room, like if somebody wanted to. Wanted to just raise their hand and worship, it was awkward. If somebody shouted a random hallelujah, it was awkward. And so as a result, people didn't really do it because there wasn't enough space for them to kind of be anonymous. And these were really unchurched and they were new people and stuff. But then as we began to grow, people and we started to get more people in, our culture became more dynamic. We ended up having the person who. Just the people who were comfortable raising their hands and singing out loud.
Henry Tolbert [00:12:24]:
And I think at one point, we even got a runner. Right? I remember the first time we got a runner in church. I was excited, right? Somebody who just kind of took out running with joy, and I was like, okay, that's new, right? But it was so amazing because it was just the freedom to be who they were called to be. You know, sometimes your current culture can squeeze out the culture that you're trying to build. Sometimes where you're trying to go to get to a place where people freely worship and people are not afraid is squeezed out by the people who look at you weird every time you make a noise, right? And so one of the things that happens when you grow, though, you can foster a more dynamic culture because those voices that are loud when the church is small, they become less loud as the church begins to grow. And so you want to be aware that that's a part of it. All right, so that's all great, but how do we break the 100 barrier? All right, I want to tell you something, man. This is going to sound really simple, but it's not as much about your service, and it's not as much about your music or your building or your facility.
Henry Tolbert [00:13:28]:
When it comes to breaking the 100 barrier, the big thing that really takes precedence is how you think about church growth. It's going to be your mindset, and it's going to be how you prepare. So much of what I'm about to share with you to help you break the 100 barrier is stuff that happens behind the scenes. It's not always the stuff that the people in your congregation will see. Some of it, you know, may show up in a visible form, but a lot of this is going to be invisible. Right. I think of it like a plant. When you want to plant a seed and you want to grow something, you put that seed in darkness, and even when you can't see it, that seed is taking action.
Henry Tolbert [00:14:07]:
Something is happening beneath the surface so that by the time you see it, that thing has already been happening. The process has already been going, and that's the same. I think the same is true for church growth is that before, by the time you see the growth, there's a process. There's something that's been happening behind the scenes that you didn't know about. Right. I remember when our church first. The first church I ever planted. When we first planned, we first passed the 125 barrier, you know, I remember we kept bumping up against it.
Henry Tolbert [00:14:34]:
We'd be 80, then 100, then 115. One Sunday we got 127. But then we came back down and it just kind of kept going until we eventually broke through to where we got to the other side. And when it happened, I remember somebody saying to me, man, it seems like you guys grew out of nowhere. And I was like, nah, it didn't come out of nowhere. I spent a lot of nights meeting with our team. We spent a lot of nights praying. Every single Friday night, we would fill up our little 1100 square feet apartment and we would turn on music, we would study the Bible and we would just pray for hours we spent.
Henry Tolbert [00:15:06]:
I remember at one point, one year, we got to about six to about the six month mark of the year when we got to like the end of June. And I think out of six months, I had fasted a total of about four of those months. The most that I'd ever done it in my life. And it wasn't just me, it was all these people. We were doing it together. And so there were so many things happening behind the scenes that eventually led to what was happening on the scene. And so I want you to get prepared because I'm going to share with you these five strategies or these five things that you need to do that you need to be prepared to lead your church in in order to break the 100 barrier. So let's dive into it, all right? Number one, you've got to be unapologetic about your desire to grow.
Henry Tolbert [00:15:50]:
You've got to be unapologetic about your desire to grow, right? If you're afraid to admit that you want the church to grow, I can almost guarantee that you're not going to be able to create a culture of growth in your church. You've got to be unapologetic. You've got to be in a point at a point where you say, listen, I want our church to grow. And I'm not apologizing for that. I'm not mad about that. I'm not sad about that. You want to make sure that you're not ashamed of that growth. You want to make sure you're not ashamed of it.
Henry Tolbert [00:16:21]:
And it's not something to be ashamed of, right? And I know in this culture we live in, we've seen people. I was reading this in my devotional just a couple of days ago where, you know, Paul says, man, look, I know some people are doing stuff for the wrong reason, but man, listen, you know, as long as Jesus preached, I'm going to let them do their thing and I'm going to stay focused on what I'm called to do. And I think we've got to have the same mindset that, yes, there are people who want to grow the church and they want to do it for the wrong reason. There are people who have had bad experience experiences at larger churches and at growing churches. Right. All of that is true. But here's the thing that I know. A restaurant that I really love messes up my order once I'm not going to stop eating food.
Henry Tolbert [00:17:05]:
I'm still going to eat food. And matter of fact, I'm probably still going to go to that restaurant. I'm going to give them a chance to get it right. My point is, bad experiences over here don't mean that we give up on the concepts that we're pursuing. And just because some people have wanted to grow for the wrong reasons doesn't mean that you want to grow for the wrong reasons. If you're serious about developing people, discipling people, getting people to Jesus, empowering people to go and walk with Jesus, if you're serious about those things, you've got to be unapologetic about your desire to grow. Embrace it. Don't run away from it.
Henry Tolbert [00:17:40]:
Embrace it and communicate that vision. Communicate that vision. Make it clear to the people in front of you. One of the mistakes that I've made as a pastor in the past is I try to really lead a secret campaign to grow the church. And because of that, I wasn't communicating clearly that this was a desire for us. And what it ended up doing in my case is I ended up allowing those who did not want to see the church grow because they wanted to protect their comforts and their relationships and those it ended up allowing them to sabotage what God was trying to do in the church. And so you've got to be unapologetic about growing. And is it going to bring out some critics? Absolutely.
Henry Tolbert [00:18:24]:
Absolutely. Is it going to bring up some conflicts? Absolutely. But these are conflicts that you would rather deal with today than wait until new people show up and more people get hurt because the bed and the stage wasn't set for them to come in. So you want to make sure that you're unapologetic. Make it clear that man, growing allows us to reach more people. It allows us to do more things. That allows us to have a greater impact. You know, there are a Couple things I see when it comes to how people think, how pastors specifically think about church growth.
Henry Tolbert [00:18:59]:
You know, one of the things I see is that we tend to attach church growth to the attractional model of church. Right? And the attractional model is really just a way of saying our biggest focus is on just getting a bunch of people to show up and come in. And when you're attractional, it's not just that you want people to come in, but it's that you will use whatever means necessary to get them to come in, Right? So you'll use whatever works. That's the main thing. You just want to be attractional. And the attractional model, by the way, is not a bad thing. I think there are a ton of churches who have been labeled attractional that because people don't see what happens on the inside. They see when they do the big series, they see when they bring in the big speakers, they see when they hire the worship leaders, they see the clips of their band with 50 people on stage.
Henry Tolbert [00:19:49]:
They see those clips, but they don't see the discipling that's happening behind that. Right. And so sometimes when you're leading a church under 100, it's really easy to make the attractional church the enemy, because they're not really discipling people. They're not even teaching the gospel over there. That's kind of the mentality they can have, and that's not always true. So I really encourage you to really think differently about that. But one of the things I see is that we attach church growth to the attractional model. But then the other thing I see is when leaders who came in as these once young, vibrant leaders who came in with this vision and this passion to see the church grow, and they believe that God had called them to usher in a revival and a revolution and a change, and to see these young leaders who were once young leaders come in with all this fire and passion, cannot wait for their opportunity to do what God has called them to do and to live out their purpose and their passion.
Henry Tolbert [00:20:50]:
And you see them and they come out, they're so creative and they're innovative, and they're willing to try all these different things. And over time, they get beat up a lot of times by the church. They get beat up by deacons, they get beat up by elders, they get beat up by the members of their church. Some get beat up by their own families and spouses, and the joy and the creativity just gets squeezed out of them. And if that's where you are I want you to know, man, I am praying for you and I'm praying for you because I know what it feels like to be in that space. I've been in that spot before where it felt like I just couldn't win. That everything I brought to the table, there was always some kind of opposition or some kind of reason why it wouldn't work, why we couldn't do it, why we shouldn't do it. And eventually coming to the point where it's like, okay, I didn't think it was possible, but these people are struggling and they want to stay in it.
Henry Tolbert [00:21:52]:
And I know what it feels like to be you. And sometimes when you go through that, you become anti growth. Not intentionally, but really what that struggle and what your past failures teach you is that, man, it ain't even worth trying. I done done these events and people didn't support it. You know, I've tried this and people didn't come. I started this class. People didn't do it. And so what happens is that failure can sometimes convince you, you that growth isn't worth pursuing.
Henry Tolbert [00:22:21]:
But I want to challenge you to think differently about this and be unapologetic about your desire to grow. We hadn't even gotten into how we gonna make it happen. I'm not asking you to make it happen. I'm just asking you to be unapologetic and to be honest with yourself and your people about the fact that you want to see the church grow. Be honest about the fact that, hey, we want to fill this building up. Be honest about that fact and don't run away from it. Then number two, I want you to support that with a biblical framework. I want you to be able to explain and express that church growth is biblical.
Henry Tolbert [00:23:05]:
So after you're serious about wanting to grow now you need to put a biblical framework to it and you need to communicate that biblical framework. You need to make sure that your church understands that growth is biblically supported, that it is a Bible mandate, that it's not just some man made thing that you created, is not just something that you wanted, but it is biblically supported, that it is important to God that we continue to grow the church. It's important that we do our best to depopulate hell and populate heaven. It's important that we do those things. So you want to share scriptures that highlight the importance of sharing the word. You want to make sure that they understand that this isn't a concept you created, but it's a biblical thing. You know, if I'm honest You know, a lot of times I think where the disconnect comes in is because the Bible is so clear. The biblical narrative is there.
Henry Tolbert [00:24:03]:
It's so clear when it comes to growing the church. But I think sometimes we focus more on the how than the why. And I think you want to communicate the why, not the how. How you want to communicate that, hey, we want to grow because the word of God supports it. Not, we want to grow by doing this specific thing. Right? You want to focus on the why and not the how. And so you need to communicate the biblical narrative because this is going to help your church understand what we're really trying to do. It's going to help them really understand where we're trying to go.
Henry Tolbert [00:24:40]:
One of my favorite biblical frameworks for this is Luke 14:23. Luke 14:23 is where Jesus tells the parable of the man who's having a banquet. He sends out all these invitations. Some people come, some of them don't. A lot of people give excuses, well, I got to do this. You know, I just bought a piece of land, or I got to go bury this person. I got to go do that. And all these excuses.
Henry Tolbert [00:25:02]:
And eventually Jesus says, hey, look, this is what I want you to do. He says to his servants, he says, go into the highways and byways and compel people to come. Why? So that my house may be. I've prepared. I'm ready for people. It's people out there hungry, and I got a table full of food. Don't let this food go to waste. Go out there and tell these hungry people, hey, a table has been set for you.
Henry Tolbert [00:25:27]:
There's a space at the table for you. Go out and do it. To me, that's one of the most compelling scriptures and compelling arguments for growth that exists in the Bible. And that's just one. That's not all of them. That's just one of them. That's just one. And so what you want to do is you want to explain this to the church, to your church from a biblical perspective so they understand.
Henry Tolbert [00:25:51]:
All right? So number one, you want to be honest about your desire to grow. Be unapologetic about it. Number two, you want to support it with a biblical framework. All right? Number three, now you want to focus on building your future team. You want to focus on building your future team because you need to build a team that is going to be ready to handle what you're believing God for. Right? Let's be honest. And again, I'm all about the honesty because I care about you. And I care about your church, right? Let's be honest, the team that got you to where you are is not always the team that will take you to where God wants you to go.
Henry Tolbert [00:26:30]:
And that's okay. That's okay. I mean, Paul took different people on different missionary journeys. He went on, it's okay, it happened, it happens sometimes. And that doesn't mean that we can't, that we don't love each other. It doesn't mean that we still can't be close. It doesn't mean that we still can't be in the same church. But you've got to come to understand that sometimes ministry has to operate like a relay race, right? It has to operate like a relay race.
Henry Tolbert [00:26:58]:
Like one person can't make the whole journey as fast as four people who are handing the baton to each other can make it. That's one of my favorite things about track and field. You know, I love the relay race. I love watching these teammates, these four teammates come together to collectively put forth their best effort. And one of the things that I love most is I love watching the handoffs, right? I'm a track, like it's just like my thing. I was a football player and football is always near and dear to my heart because it was a sport I was good at. But the sport I've always loved most has been track and field. I'll never forget watching Carl Lewis in the Olympics sitting on the floor of my grandparents home like that to me was near and dear.
Henry Tolbert [00:27:45]:
And one of the things I love to watch are handoffs, the transition from one runner to the other. And I love the thing that really gets me emotional. And I'll admit I'll shed a tear every once in a while when I'm watching track, when I see this, especially on that relay, when the next to last runner gives it to their team and then they give this primal scream of passion like when they're like go. And you can see them ranting and cheering their teammate on like I want you to go and get the win that we worked so hard for. And you've got to think about that when it comes to building your future team is that there comes a time where a team that was built for maintaining gives way to a team that is more geared, geared towards growing. This is moving from management to innovating. And you've got to begin to build a team that fits the future you're trying to go into right now. In this era, having a team that is opposed to technology is probably not a great thing.
Henry Tolbert [00:28:52]:
You need to think about your team for the future. What you want to do is you want to identify and nurture the potential leaders who you know can help take you into the future. Future. You need to be thinking about the different people, groups, and generations that are involved in your team. You need to be thinking, in many of our cases, you need to be thinking younger. You need to be thinking about training up those people. I'm not just saying throw them into leadership and they're not prepared. I'm not saying that at all.
Henry Tolbert [00:29:20]:
But that's why I say focus on building your future team, not just throwing them into leadership when they're not ready. But right now, while you've got some leaders who are getting ready to pass the baton, you could be training those other leaders behind the scenes so that when the time comes, they'll be ready. When the time comes, they're ready to step in. And so you want to invest in their development. You want to begin to train them for the future. You know, most pastors like yourself, are often leading in cultures that they didn't build, right? In most cases, unless you planted your church, you're leading in a culture that another leader helped to build, which means that you probably have a team that another leader trained and discipled. And so this is your opportunity to begin to train for your leg of the journey. You know, one of my favorite stories, and I love to think I actually got it at first, I heard it from a movie that I love.
Henry Tolbert [00:30:18]:
I love apocalyptic movies. And this movie, Deep Impact, where it's about this asteroid is getting ready to hit the earth and all this kind of stuff like that. And so they're getting ready to go and try to fight this asteroid and blow it up so it doesn't destroy the world and all this kind of stuff like that. And one of the pilots of the space shuttle said, he said, you know, in the days of Mark Twain, the Mississippi river was too vast for any one riverboat pilot to understand and to remember the whole thing. And so what they did is that they broke the river up into sections. And every pilot had one task. To know their section of the river. They didn't have to know the section before them or the section after them.
Henry Tolbert [00:30:59]:
They needed to know their section of the river. Saying to you is, this is that this is your opportunity to train your team for the next section of the river, to train them for where you're getting ready to go. I know where you are right now, and the team that you have may be great for where you are, but now Start training for the future and where you're going, right? And some of the people you have may be great to transition into the future, but I'm also wise enough to know that one of the things that will keep you from going into the future is having people on the team who just don't want to go. And so you need to start training your team for the future, because here's another reason that you need to start training your team for the future is that one of the things that keeps a church below 100 in attendance is the Do it all pastor. It's the rock star pastor who does everything. You're making all the visits, you're doing all the preaching, you're doing all the planning. You're making most of the decisions, the Do it all pastor, because you become your own bottle. You become the reason that you can't move forward.
Henry Tolbert [00:32:03]:
You become the reason that people can't be sticky because you get. God sends you gift to people, but you won't let them go. And some of that is built on past experience. Some of it is built on stuff that happened in the past. I know one of the things that happens a lot to pastors is that we get afraid to empower people too quickly because we're afraid they'll leave us, right? We're afraid that, man, I'll put you in this position, and then now you leave, and I got to go back to the people and I got to explain this and all this. I understand all of that. But I'm here to tell you, if everything stays in your hand, the church can go no higher than you. It's what John Maxwell calls the law of the lid is that the organization cannot grow beyond the capacity of the leader.
Henry Tolbert [00:32:44]:
And so if we've got to wait on you to make every decision, if we've got to wait on you to give all the guidance, the very same thing that gives you comfort because you have control, will give you discomfort because you won't have any space and you won't have capacity. And so you've got to make sure that you start building your team. Here's one of the things I want to challenge you to do is I want you to start offloading tasks. I want you to start letting go of tasks that can go to other people. We were working with a pastor in our program, and when his pastor came in, they'd been at a church for about eight years, and for the entire eight years, they've been stuck right around 18 people. Eighteen people is what they had. And they just Couldn't go before, but this pastor was just as worn out as if they had 200 people. They were doing everything I'm talking about.
Henry Tolbert [00:33:32]:
They're cutting the grass, they're cleaning the building, they're planning the service, they're doing setup and breakdown. They're doing all these different things. And so I had this pastor go through an exercise. I said, I want you to make a list of all the tasks that are on your plate, all the things that you're responsible for, all the things that you do. And that list came out a mile long. And I said to this pastor, I said, all right, here's what we're going to do. I said, we've got to get rid of a bunch of these tasks, as many of these tasks as possible. And I want you to only be less.
Henry Tolbert [00:34:01]:
Be left with just a handful of tasks that are on your plate. A handful of tasks, right? This pastor telling me all these different things they got going on. And so I said, listen, I said, that can die. Let it die, put it down. Because here's what I realized, and this may be true for you. Many pastors are wearing themselves out trying to keep things alive that people won't miss if they die. You're wearing yourself out for a program or for an event or for the ministry that if it disappeared, people would be okay, and they would just keep going with their lives. And so one of the things that you've got to do is you've got to learn that.
Henry Tolbert [00:34:36]:
You've got to see the reality of that, and you've got to be willing to let some things go. So I want you to make a list of all the things you're responsible for. And then I want you to look at that list, and I want you to get rid of it. Right? In a future episode, I'm going to give you some more detail on this, and I'm going to help you figure out which tasks you should carry and which ones you should not. But for now, make the list and start looking at the task and saying, look, here are the things I could let go and give yourself some space back so that you don't become the lid that's holding your church back from growing. Number four, the fourth thing that you've got to lead in. And I'm going to go ahead and tell you that this is going to be one that might make you uncomfortable, but you've got to break up the silos. You've got to break up those little groups of people and those little cliques that are keeping New people from really getting integrated.
Henry Tolbert [00:35:30]:
You know, you've got to go and you've got to be willing to go and attack some sacred cows. I heard a leader say it this way. You need to develop a hunger for hamburgers, hamburgers and steaks, because you need to be killing sacred cows left and right and just putting them away. And that's one of the things you've got to do. You have got to make sure that you create a culture of collaboration. One of the reasons that a church stays stuck under 100 is because of the silos. It's because of the people who have attached their identity to a specific role or a specific place in the church. And as a result, they don't want to let other people get involved.
Henry Tolbert [00:36:11]:
As a result, they don't want to pull other people in. As a result, other people can't get involved. And so this person believes that they own the ministry. They believe that the ministry is theirs and they can do it, and they got it. They don't need any help. They don't need any of these other things. And because of that, they create a silo. And because of that silo, new people can't get involved.
Henry Tolbert [00:36:33]:
And so they could be hogging a ministry. That could be the difference between you staying where you are and you growing. They could be holding it back, they could be keeping it bondage, Right? And so you've got to do is you've got to begin to foster collaboration. You know, one of the rules that I started to implement as a pastor, that I would implement as a pastor, is one person Ministries are illegal. What I meant by that is if you're going to lead a ministry, everybody who leads has to have at least an appropriate apprentice who leads alongside of them. Because if not, what you end up in. Ideally, you want to have a system. But what I've realized is that in place of systems, most churches have a person.
Henry Tolbert [00:37:22]:
And the problem with that is that if that person goes down, everything that you were depending on them for goes down. If that person gets sick, if that person gets disgruntled, if that person leaves the church, if any of those things happen, happen, all the things that they were doing die and have to be rebuilt by somebody who doesn't understand how they built it. And so you got to break up the silos, and you've got to start to lead through teams. You've got to start to lead through teams of people. Not just individuals, but teams of people. You've got to start doing that. You've got to start forming These teams of people who are all working towards the same goal because they're trying to go forward and build what God has called them to build. Build.
Henry Tolbert [00:38:05]:
Here's my admonition to you. Do not let a small group of people hijack God's vision for your church. Don't let a small group of people hijack the vision. And one of the ways that that happens is through these silos. It happens through these silos, it happens through these cliques, through these small groups, through these committees who meet after the meeting, through these people who try to control everything so tightly that they won't do it. You've got to create teams, teams of open handed leaders, leaders who understand that God will move people as he chooses, he will bring people as he chooses, take people as he chooses. You've got to build those kinds of team that want to collaborate. Now in order to do this, you've got to get comfortable with confrontation.
Henry Tolbert [00:38:53]:
You can't be afraid to have the hard conversation because sometimes your silence feels like consent. When you see a problem and you don't speak to it, it says to that person and to the people around that they're okay with this, pastor's okay with this. And that might not be the case, but that's what you're saying when you don't speak to it. And I'm not telling you you got to be mean. I'm not telling you you got to be angry. What I'm telling you is you just need to be direct. You just need to be direct. Just be honest and direct.
Henry Tolbert [00:39:26]:
That's it. Just be honest about where they are and let those conversations evolve. Last but not least, number five, you want to break 100? Here's the last thing you've got to lead in is that you've got to challenge your team to be future focused. And this one can sometimes be hard for leaders. But if you lead them well, if you lead them with clarity, your team can grab ahold of this. You've got to develop a team of people who think long term. One of the reasons I think this is challenging is that just my opinion, I don't think most individuals think long, long term. I think that's why we're arguing about the environment, right? We're arguing about these different things and how they affect the environment, all this kind of stuff like that.
Henry Tolbert [00:40:10]:
Because there's a huge group of people who are like, listen, I'm trying to focus on where I'm at right now. I'm not thinking 100 years into the future. I'm not going to be here. I'm not thinking like that. And sometimes that happens with the church is that people are like, listen, I'm getting what I need. I'm getting my experience. So I'm not thinking about the next generation. I'm not thinking about what the church is going to look like when I'm gone.
Henry Tolbert [00:40:31]:
Y'all figure it out then. Right now, I got what I want. And so what you need to do is you need to challenge your team to be future focused, right? And so what that means is you've got to lead like where you're going and not like where you are. You know, I remember as a church planter, I remember a lady came to visit our church, and she looked and she said, oh, I see where this is going. She said, oh, I see where this is going to become. Like, I can. Oh, yeah, I see it. This is going to be good.
Henry Tolbert [00:41:00]:
Like, this is going to be awesome. And really what she was saying was, is that, man, things aren't there yet, but you guys are doing things with a level of excellence that speaks to where you're going. And really, here's what she was referring to. She came to our church on this particular day, and I think we were in a series, like a revival series or something like that. But even though our church was small in and of itself, you could tell that I was going to the podium and I wasn't talking. Like, there were just 20 or 25 people in the room. You know, I was leading from the podium, like the room was full. I would even stand on stage and I would scan the room as I'm talking and preaching and be looking at empty chairs.
Henry Tolbert [00:41:41]:
You know, I remember people on the front two rows would be looking around like, who is he looking at? Who is he talking to?
Speaker A [00:41:47]:
Right?
Henry Tolbert [00:41:47]:
And really, I was. I was leading in a way that I'm like, okay, I know what God is calling us to do. So I'm preparing myself for it. I'm preparing myself to not be in a room full of 200 people and only talk to. To the 10 people that I'm accustomed to talking to. I was already preparing for that. We had ushers and greeters out front, right? We had, again, that would be Sundays where we had 30 of us in church and 15 of us would be serving in some capacity, right? We were building it out like we knew what it was going to be. We had a children's ministry years before we had children.
Henry Tolbert [00:42:24]:
Maybe not years, I'll say a year, months before we had children. Our first Children's ministry was my two kids and our drummers, one kid, that's it. And yet we had curriculum and we had everything built. We had activities, we had all these different things because we were preparing for the future. And that's what you've got to do. If you don't challenge your team to prepare for the future, then what will happen is that the future may present itself and you not be ready to take advantage of it. And I know that awkward space in between that awkward space where you're in that kind of tug of war where you don't have it yet and you feel almost ridiculous for doing all this extra stuff just for this one thing, right? For it not to be there yet. It feels ridiculous building a children's ministry when you got one kid, right? But you have to go through that awkward phase because on the other side of that awkward phase is what you want.
Henry Tolbert [00:43:18]:
You know, I remember going through an awkward phase with my beard where it was like really small and I've got naturally curly hair and it didn't look good no matter how much I brushed it. It didn't look well kept. And it was just. It was just weird. And I hated that phase and I didn't like it. But I knew if I kept going through it and I kept taking care of it, eventually I would get to the other side. And you've got to have that same way. You've got to inspire your team to imagine and envision what the church is going to look like.
Henry Tolbert [00:43:48]:
Now, here's one of the things I know is true. When you're trying to break through this 100 barrier, it's going to feel like you're facing warfare on every side. It's going to feel like if it's not one thing, it's another another. But I want to encourage you to go back to the biblical framework for why you want to grow. Go back to understanding that Jesus is with you, that God is on your side, that yes, you're going to face some opposition, but eventually you can break through it. Eventually you can get to the other side of it. But you've just got to keep on trying to cultivate a team that's thinking about the future. You got to cultivate a team that is passionate enough to keep thinking about where we're going and not just where we are.
Henry Tolbert [00:44:35]:
I'll end this portion with this and then we'll go into our interview. One of the things that I often challenge leaders to think about is I want you to, as you're structuring as you're organizing, as you're building systems, as you're planning, I want you to plan not for where you are, but I want you to plan for the day where your church is two or three times the size that you are. So right now, everything you do, I want you to imagine what it would be like if there were three times more people, right? If you've got 20 people right now, when you're planning an event or you're planning a system or you're building something, I want you to think about, okay, how does this work if it's 60 people? If you've got 75 people, right? I want you to ask yourself, how does this work if there's 225 of us? Right? I want you to think that way because it's going to change how you build. You'll stop depending on one person and allowing things to get stuck at one person. And you'll have a more formal way of getting things done, a more excellent way of getting things done, because God wants to take you there. All right, listen, I believe. I believe that God wants to see the church grow. Every person we snatch out of the kingdom of darkness, we have an opportunity to pull them into the kingdom of light.
Henry Tolbert [00:45:54]:
And that means we're taking somebody from a life separated from God, which is hell, and moving them into a life and eternity with God, which is heaven. And so I believe that our mandate to grow beyond 100 is important, but it starts with you and your mindset. Check out this interview, and let's talk about it some more. Well, you can probably tell by now if you're going to break the barrier. It's going to happen if you, as a leader, make a decision to move forward. And so we want to partner this training, as I've said before, with some real boots on the ground experience. And so I want to introduce you to somebody who's actually done this, who has broken this barrier, and who we've had a chance to be a part of their journey. I want you to meet Pastor Eric Rush.
Henry Tolbert [00:46:34]:
Hey, Pastor Rush. How are you?
Speaker A [00:46:36]:
Hey, how are you, sir? I'm doing well, man.
Henry Tolbert [00:46:38]:
Awesome. Thank you so much for being here and a part of what God has been doing. Our church systems bootcamp, it's just been a joy to walk on this journey with you. So I want to start here about where you were kind of when we first and what you were thinking about and what was really happening in your heart and your spirit when you decided to join the program.
Speaker A [00:46:57]:
Sure. Well, listen, first of all, I thank you for this opportunity just to be able to share our journey, or at least a portion of our journey with some of the listeners here. And I pray that maybe some things that God has done in our world will be a blessing to others. I was early, relatively early in my pastorate. When you and I first met. It was in December 22nd, I think was. And I became senior pastor in January of 21. So I was about to hit the two year mark.
Speaker A [00:47:29]:
And one of the things that I was challenged with or faced with was how do we move forward? How do we implement what's next? After taking over as pastor, our church, after we casted the vision, our church was very receptive of the vision. And so I was fortunate to have a pretty good honeymoon, I would say, where everybody sort of received the vision and really rallied around it. But my focus initially, honestly was more of internal care casting vision, wanting to maintain what we had. And so we really focused internally a lot. And at the time when you and I met, I was at a point that it was like, how do we move forward? We have to engage, engage more in our community. We have to be more evangelistic focused. How do we build on what we already have? And so that's when you and I met. And so that was sort of the state of our attendance.
Speaker A [00:48:24]:
We had a good solid core of members that were faithful but really wanting, knowing that God had more for us, knowing that we were capable of more through the power of God and the help of God. And so we were at a point of how do I move forward? So burning passion in my heart to move forward and to charge forward, but really not knowing exactly how to do it or what specific steps I needed to take or specific measures I needed to put in place. And so that's what made this partnership so amazing to me because it helped us move forward.
Henry Tolbert [00:48:58]:
Man, that's amazing. Did see such a change. And I remember we did our initial breakthrough session when it came to church growth and moving things forward, forward, you weren't putting the pressure on the congregation. You were really searching internally and you were asking not who do they need to become? But who do, who do I need to become? And I thought that was just so, so amazing. Here's one of the things I'm curious about. What are some of the, maybe just one specific strategies that you were able that really led you guys to really break through that 100 barrier?
Speaker A [00:49:31]:
Well, the challenge I have right now is trying to narrow it down because there were so many. Some were programmatic, but then some were Just ideas, just, you know, like, wow, why didn't I think of that? And so I would just say what this program has done for us is given. It sort of opened up my mindset to think outside of the box, to think broader, and to really recognize some of the low hanging fruit that was right there. A couple of things that we did that had really significant impact is, is I would say one is our invite strategy. We really leaned in on an invite strategy, and in conjunction with that, we actually sort of redesigned our foyer or our lobby area. We created a welcome center, and it has been absolutely transformational. Our members are more excited and pumped up. It's just a feeling of pride when you walk into the foyer, but then also the experience for those guests.
Speaker A [00:50:32]:
So that invite strategy, we wanted to make sure that what we were inviting them too, was something of value, and we wanted them to feel our hearts when they first walked in the door. That welcome, the welcome center, the investment in that, was absolutely game changing for us. But then I mentioned the invite strategy where we really cast the vision in terms of what was in my heart regarding the value of having a healthy invite culture. And we talked about the benefits of it. We said, what would it look like if we did this? And then we challenged our congregation and we put a number to it, said, hey, you know, I'm going to challenge you over the next, you know, period of time to, to pass out these many invite cards or to make sure you invite those people that are sort of already in your close proximity, you know. And so we, we really pushed into that. Our congregation really embraced it with that, with the welcome center. And there's so many, so many other things that I.
Speaker A [00:51:29]:
I'm sure we don't have time to get into all of them, but there's so many, many things. But the thing is really, really not going it alone. Casting that vision and letting our congregation know, hey, here is what it would look like if we do this. And when you paint that picture, those that are really committed to the vision, committed to the house, they'll jump in and they'll embrace it, and you'll see things move forward. It'll give you wind behind the, behind the sails and, and take you, take you really far.
Henry Tolbert [00:51:55]:
Man, I love it and I love it. You know, one of the things that I was really grateful for when we were talking about this is just. It was clear that you were taking the content seriously, you were taking the training seriously, and I think that was hugely valuable. I want to close here. I know that there have been Some significances in the culture of your church. We've talked about that at length. I've had a chance to come down and visit and be there. But I want to talk about something, you know, kind of new that just came up me kind of some self reflection that you were doing.
Henry Tolbert [00:52:25]:
So talk a little bit about what Reina shared and the differences she saw in you as you started to really connect.
Speaker A [00:52:32]:
Yes. And that was a, that was a part of our, of my personal sort of a self reflection journey or, or exercise that I embrace because I wanted to become the best version of myself. And I think as you mentioned, if we're going to lead effectively lead our congregations effectively, the, the health of, of the organization or the health of our congregation are only going to be as healthy as the individual leader. And so I am really big on assessment, on self reflecting. I call it the X ray version. And so I really want to be better. And so I reached out to a few people to get them to sort of share some things. And one of the things that my wife mentioned was how my heart was really, really hungry.
Speaker A [00:53:20]:
And I was determined to our ministry forward. I was determined to make sure that we, when and I was willing to do whatever it took. And when I found out about the boot camp program when you and I met, it was something we really clicked. And you know, I was all in from day one. When I felt the release in my spirit, when I felt the connection or it passed in my words, it passed the gut check, I was like, look, we are all in. And she was right there with me all along. But she saw sort of a shift in my passion and in my energy and that how passionate I was about implementing the strategies, how passionate I was about building the right team and not just asking for volunteers, but hand picking a core team to really, really help us carry out that vision. Because I was just that committed to it.
Speaker A [00:54:08]:
And I know no matter how great a vision is, you've got to have the right people to execute. So she had a, literally a front row seat or riding shotgun right beside me seat along the journey. But she, and she saw things that I didn't even see. But in her words, just the passion and the fire that, that it ignited in me as a result of our partnership. Because quite honestly, we began to see results immediately. We started seeing results immediately by implementing some things that didn't even cost, didn't even really cost anything.
Henry Tolbert [00:54:40]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:54:40]:
And it was just like, wow, just some little things. And so when we started all, all it takes takes to keep, to keep Somebody motivated is to or is for them to win. When you start seeing wins, man, that's just like, look, hey, this thing works, so why stop? Let's move it even forward. And just the impact that we've had from our new members, the engagement, the excitement, the testimonials that we are hearing from those that are coming into the ministry, the financial impact, our budget has probably tripled since we've been a part of this program, at least I'll say tripled. And just so. And that. And that gives us more opportunity to do more work, more ministry work. And so it's just been an amazing journey for us and we're excited about it and excited to see what God has next for us.
Henry Tolbert [00:55:27]:
Man, listen, I'm excited for you and I'm so grateful to have you guys as a part of this at this point, man, we've gone beyond just partners and we're family and so. So, man, thank you so much for sharing and thank you for your interest. I want to say this to you pastors. I want you to understand that you can break this barrier, but in order to lead a growing church, you must become the leader of a growing church. That means you must become the person who has the passion and the energy and the mindset in order to lead your church forward. You can do it, and we want to help you do it. Here's how. So to summarize this episode, when you and your church, and I'm speaking it over you, because I believe it's going to happen, right? So I'm agreeing with you right there.
Henry Tolbert [00:56:13]:
But when you and your church break the 100 barrier, there are a couple of things that happen. There are a couple of things that become possible for you. Number one, you can have a greater impact. You can do more good when you have more hands to put to the work. When there are more people, more disciples coming in to be a part, you can do more things. We see that in the ministry of Jesus. In the ministry of Jesus, we see some things that he does with the 12, some things he does that takes the whole 72, some things that he does with 500. We see these different things.
Henry Tolbert [00:56:47]:
And so you can have a greater impact. But then another thing that happens is you get a greater presence. There's no mistake about it. People go where people go. And so when you get more people engaged and involved, it becomes easier for your presence to be felt because you can send people to go out and serve and do amazing things. All. Also, your resources, really, they just shift. And I'm not just talking about your money.
Henry Tolbert [00:57:10]:
I'm talking about the gifts. When you're a small church, a lot of times, a lot of the people can have similar gifts. But as the church grows, new gifts start to get introduced. You start to get people who are not just generalists, but you start to have more specialists in the church, more people who can do specific things. But then another thing that happens when you break the 100 barrier is that you'll see your finances really start to move closer towards stability. You know, we can't dance around the fact that it takes money to do ministry, but as you reach more people. I love this quote from Rick Warren. He says when you baptize a person, their wallet goes in, too.
Henry Tolbert [00:57:49]:
And so a part of discipleship is not just doing ministry, but supporting ministry. And so as you do that, you get a chance to do that. So you've got to really embrace these principles of being unapologetic about your desire to grow. It's okay to want to reach more people for the kingdom. Not only is it okay, I believe it's a part of our biblical mandate. And so you want to make sure that you lean into that and not be afraid of it. All right, so listen, if you want some help and you want to implement this, I want you to go over to our [email protected] and I want you to explore our church systems Bootcamp. In our church systems Bootcamp, that's where we come alongside you and we walk with you.
Henry Tolbert [00:58:30]:
We help you implement these strategies. We help you put your mind in this place. We help train and coach your team. That's one of the benefits of the bootcamp is not only do you get access to our library of well over 70 training videos, but so do your leaders, your leaders get trained. That's one of the big gaps that so many churches have, is that, pastor, you go to conferences and you go to seminars and you read books and you do all these things to get better. But what about your team? And so we've created a library, we've created an educational platform where your team can get educated on the systems that it takes to lead the church well. So go to getchurchsystems.com check that out. And I would look forward to having a conversation with you to talk about how we can serve you and how you'll be a great fit.
Henry Tolbert [00:59:18]:
All right, I also want you to stay tuned for our next episode, because in our next episode, we're going to be talking about the silent struggle, how you as a pastor can to begin to recover from burnout. Come on. You know as well as I do that as any time you're spending your. Your life pouring into other people, you're spending your life investing in other people. It just takes from you. It pulls something from you, and it often leads us towards burnout, especially if you're in a church that's under 100, because you're most likely carrying probably too much stuff on your own. And so in our next episode, I'm going to challenge you to put some stuff down, to let some stuff go, even if it hurts a little bit, even if it means. Means that some things need to go undone for a little while.
Henry Tolbert [01:00:09]:
But I'm going to challenge you to do that for your own benefit, because it's best for you. I care about you, and I want to see you thrive, and I want to see you finish the race. Paul said I finished my course at the end of his life, and I don't want you. Your life to end before your course end. There's something that God wants you to do with your life. There's something he had in mind when he created you, and I want you to have the stamina and the energy to finish your course. All right, so make sure you're tuned in for the episode. I think it's going to be a huge blessing to you.
Henry Tolbert [01:00:38]:
All right, until next time, keep the gears turning. Peace.
